can i use shellac over oil based stain

If so some insight would be nice. For especially tough knots use multiple coats of amber shellac. I think you are asking for trouble with the oil/shellac. You don't want to apply a harder finish (varnish) over a softer finish (oil/varnish blend). check out the. (I'm not sure whether that wide compatibility also includes lacquer and catalysed finishes.) If you mix your alcohol dye in shellac most of it will wipe off with alcohol and No I wouldn't use the dye over an oil stain, you can but it is better to apply the dye first and then the oil stain, as the oil stain accentuates the pores of the wood. I'd like to create a darker overtone. Then, if the jewelry box is not too big, I recommend that you use an aerosol spray can of shellac for the top coat. What is Shellac? It can go over, or under, either. I read that I can use a water-based poly over an oil stain as long as I wait 72 hours. I used garnet shellac (to get an amber tone, like old varnish) then satin Gel varnish for the final finish. They are also great at covering knots and heavy stains. You can apply to raw wood, or you can apply it over an existing finish. I've made a sliegh bed from poplar and used a mahogany gel stain which gives a nice even color on the open pore wood. Shellac will adhere firmly to such hard-to-stick-to surfaces as glossy paint, metals, ceramic tile, glass or plastics. I'd like to use a water-based polyurethane over a staircase I stained last night with a Sherwin Williams oil-based stain to avoid yellowing. By adding oil to varnish you only reduce its durability. The traditional varnish is based on natural resins and oils and is thinned with mineral spirits or turpentine. For really glossy surfaces like laminate IKEA cabinets, the adhesion is not as strong as shellac primer. This can also be used to speed up the process because the shellac can go directly onto oiled wood without waiting for the oil to dry. Dewaxed shellac is unusual in being compatible with both water- and oil-based finishes, and in fact is sometimes used as an "adapter" layer between those. But the warning is that you will need to wait until the tung oil finish is completely cured. I wouldn't. The stain was color matched to our new hickory floors, which are stained a medium-dark true brown (no yellow). Rob Johnstone: The good news is that you can indeed apply shellac over a tung oil finish. I'm running some test pieces as well one with shellac sealer and another with straight tung oil. From my experience is that you can use Danish oil over oil stains and dies. Interestingly, though, on the other hand, you can’t use oil-based paints over latex paint.. Re: Shellac over oil-based stain? Some finishers choose to partially seal the wood in an attempt to float the stain atop as a way to avoid uneven coloration and blotching. Question All you need to do is rub it on liberally and then wipe … With polyester's rigidity, I'm worried the wood movement will crack the stiff polyester. Durability wise, this formulation is better than an alkyd varnish but not quite as tough as a uralkyd varnish (polyurethane). My only comment to add is, with Minwax, I always let oil based stain dry for a day, then wipe it down with terry cloth moistened lightly with paint thinner, then let it dry for another couple days before applying top coat. Linseed-oil based stain is perhaps the classic variety of stain. I used this over MinWax Early American (#230) with no problems. Other woods, like cherry, tend to blotch under oil-based stains. It also can go over oil-based finishes and can be applied using synthetic-bristle brushes, a foam roller or a rag, as can other water-based polyurethanes. One way to do that is to use very dilute dewaxed shellac as a sealer. Shellac.net Wood Finish Supply & Merit Industries Thank You for your support, we appreciate your business Ron, Pete & Shannon: General Finishes OIL BASED Wipe-On GEL STAINS: General Finishes OIL BASED Wipe-On GEL STAINS Type: Oil Based Non Ambering Use: Interior Raw Wood Application: *Note. I've never used shellac in this sense and my concern is the bonding issues with shellac under oil or oil/varnish mixes. My only concern with this is that my table top is two feet of solid maple. Add a small amount of lubricant, such as mineral oil, on the pad before application. Also I always apply stain and varnish separately and never use a combined … In French polishing, a drying oil like linseed is used to pop the shimmer/chatoyance and figure in the wood before the shellac is applied. General Finishes Wood Bowl Finish is a durable oil and urethane based finish. Water base GF En- duro-Var, High Performance or … Shellac may be used over most finishes - including old shellac, varnishes and lacquers - and under most lacquers and varnishes (except urethanes) and under any type of paint. The coating can be applied with a brush, roller or a sprayer. How light is a light sanding? I'd never use a water based product on furniture. If you plan to use oil-base poly, it's best to use dewaxed shellac to improve adhesion with the poly. Wrap the piece of muslin around the sock, holding the edges of the fabric behind the sock. Anybody have any experience in this finish? If you want to take an extra precaution you can use shellac as an intermediate coat. If you want the 'look' of tung or linseed oil, use a varnish like Waterlox or Behlen RockHard that's made with tung oil and phenolic resins. You can use one coat to seal the wood. In the 1920s shellac was replaced in factories by lacquer for two primary reasons: shellac resin (from bug secretions) is a commodity product that was going up in price as demand increased, while lacquer was going down in price; and lacquer thinner (a blend of solvents) makes lacquer much mor… If you do not desire the amber, and with java I don't see why you would, then you could head straight into the final topcoats. Depending on how new the wood is, one or two coats of 3-lb. Then apply 1, 2 or 3 coats of stain let dry completely for a least 24 hours. Shellac is a good choice over linseed oil because it will adhere well even if the oil isn't fully cured. It's going to be certain ones that you can't do it over a gel stain, stain with a clear coat, or water base won't work. If so How long do I need to leave the oil based to cure? I will say that I have used shellac over MinWax oil-based stains with no problem. It does have to be dewaxed if you plan to use waterborne paint. Apply 2 to 3 coats of oil based varnish, sanding lightly between coats. Oil base GF Gel Satin or GF Arm R Seal is recommended for the oil base Gel Stains. Here's a picture of a sample test panel on a piece of birch ply that has a lot of curly figure. I'm in the process of building a maple drafting table for a client and I'm playing around with some finish choices. Created from the dried secretions of the Lac beetle, this natural product is … That will take at least a week or so to be sure. And it doesn't matter if the shellac contains wax or not. Some varnishes are lighter in color than others because of the drying oil that's used to make them (e.g., soya oil). The differences between the squares are subtle. (Finishing Forum) Because the solvent in shellac-based primers is denatured alcohol, these primers kill the bacteria that cause certain odors. Shellac has wide compatibility. Begin applying by lightly squeezing the pad to allow a small amount of shellac to seep through the muslin. This may sound even more confusing, so to help you understand better, here is a thorough breakdown of the difference between … When you want a "close to the wood" natural finish without a lot of protection from wear, heat, water, etc. Fortunately, you can also easily strip the shellac finish if you are unsure what type you have. From contributor K: #6 Regular solvent based varnish or lacquer can go over any shellac. Shellac-Based. On some woods (cherry), applying the oil-base product to the bare wood has the greatest impact. If you are using pine or a wood that tends to blotch (such as yellow poplar, for instance), then you will want to use a thinned-out coat of shellac first, then stain. ... Shellac can be used over any stain except alcohol-base types and over any filler. Finally, the oil-base varnish provides a lot of durability (e.g., wear, water and chemical resistance). We used Zinsser Cover Stain oil based primer. Can a water base stain varnish go over a previously coated oil based stain varnish? Best temperature for application: between 40f and 90f (4c and 32c) I would not recommend applying a drying oil or an oil/varnish blend over shellac. Zinser Shellac (regular and dewaxed) is a great barrier coat. Each of the larger squares has a different finish used as the first step, though one is all lacquer. Oil based primer. Also, on the polyester/2K urethane option - I have also never used this but am aware of its great durability. So there’s no need to go oil on oil simply because your stain is oil-based. FWIW, PK is the hands down resident expert when it comes to "years ago". Fully cures in about 1 week so be careful for the first week. Thinned … It cannot be used over other finishes, or over oil-base stains or many fillers; the solvents in lacquer will dissolve other finishes and incompatible stains and fillers. It produces the exact look I was looking for, however … The stain goes on as a liquid, the solvent evaporates, and the stain dries. On a test scrap I have overstained a coat of dark oil stain ontop the mahogany gel stain with a dewaxed shellac barrier coat inbetween. It is a commonly held belief that oil-based paints don’t mix well with other types of paints; however, at the same time, it is also said that it is perfectly okay to use latex paint over an oil-based primer. I've restored a lot of furniture in my time using Shellac and polyurethane. If you are using a standard hardwood, then using the stain first, then shellac, will give you a deeper color penetration into the wood. I'm really embarrassed to even be asking this, but I've searched here, at Sawmill Creek and even at shellac.net, and I can't find a specific answer to this: The Leading Cause Of Injury In Older Men Is Them Thinking They Are Still Young Men. "It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?" Dewaxed shellac is required for water based finishes and polyurethane. then a drying oil or an oil/varnish blend is a good choice. Get shopping advice from experts, friends and the community! The beauty of all our water-based sealers and topcoats is that they’ll level and adhere to whatever solvent- or oil-based stain you’ve used. I used Zinsser 3# blond (aka clear) shellac which I cut in half with DNA (denatured alcohol). The alcohol in the shellac sterilizes the surface and the dried resin acts as a … Dry time: one hour. I suggest you always make up complete start to finish samples, which will allow you to learn the process. By the way, the shellac will act as a wash coat, and help minimize blotching on woods like maple or cherry, if you plan on staining. For about a hundred years, from the 1820s to the 1920s, shellac was the primary finish used (for all coats) by all small shops and factories. And actually, the answer is YES—you can use our EMTECH water-based sealer or top coat over the oil stain. Enduro-Var cannot be used with any oil-based product, sanding sealer or shellac. Shellac is unmatched in its adhesion to just about any material that needs finishing or painting. It is for interior use only and requires 3 coats for maximum durability. Not recommended for raw wood and unfinished MDF, because water content can cause swelling. From Paul Snyder, forum technical advisor: You can apply oil-base varnish (non-poly) over shellac without any problem. It dries to an amber color with a gloss finish. Bob D. 2006. I'm pretty set on an oil/varnish mixture or some sort (mostly what I finish products with), however I've read a few things about Shellac as a sealer and used to bring out the grain patterns a bit better. The shellac does not have to be dewaxed if you plan to use oil-based paint. "?ǝɹɐ sɹǝƃuıɟ ɹnoʎ ǝɹǝɥʍ ʍouʞ noʎ op `ʍɐs ǝlqɐʇ ɐ s,ʇı". I wait a minimum of 10 hours before applying the shellac after staining. This product can actually be used on wooden floors. Well worth the trip to your local library or bookstore. Trees and Shrubs – Apply shellac on the exposed stumps of pruned branches to seal in the sap and stop the ends from bleeding. Before you stain your pine, you should apply a wood conditioner to your wood so your stain penetrates evenly. Thanks guys... both for the advice and the welcome. They also allow you the opportunity to be sure all your materials are compatible. ... and inferior looking finish. Forum Responses ... Shellac can be used over the top of your acrylic paint if you are careful to apply it properly. Woodworking Myth: You should never put a water-based finish on top of an oil-based finish. If you need to make any adjustments, you can do it on the samples. Jim Carroll explains why it’s not only acceptable to use a water-based finish over and oil finish – provided you do it correctly – but that it can be the best solution when you want to bring out the natural character and color of the wood. Water-based oil-modified polyurethane is a relatively new product that combines the durability of an oil base with the cleanup of a water base. Bob D has already mentioned that shellac works fine over Minwax, and I also have that experience. This page was generated at 06:46 AM. ... "What finish is best for over the oil base Gel Stains? amber shellac will seal them off so they can't bleed into the finish coat to ruin it. Oil-based finishes amber over time; do not use them over white or very light colors. ... (NGR), and water stains, and over lacquer-base fillers. Bob Flexner's book "Understanding Wood Finishing" covers all this stuff in detail. Hope this helps. Drying oils like linseed and tung are a lot less durable than varnish and are not film forming finishes. (*When working over an existing finish or painting on the stain ... Gel Stain over raw wood: Dry Times: … All times are GMT-5. That can lead to crazing and cracking. October 13, 2008, KnowledgeBase: Finishing: General Wood Finishing. http://www.ridgidforum.com/forum/sho...45&postcount=1, https://www.youtube.com/user/PowerToolInstitute, https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1p...qcZKHyrqKhikFA, If this is your first visit, be sure to Shellac. However, I am not a fan of this method for a number of reasons. General Finishes Enduro-Var Urethane Topcoat can only be used over raw wood or General Finishes water-based wood stains or dye stains. Dust Collection, Safety and Plant Operation, Job Opportunities and Woodworking Services, Finishers discuss compatibility and wear issues with using shellac in combination with Tung oil and varnish. The shellac piece really pops the grain. Based to can i use shellac over oil based stain of amber shellac will adhere well even if the shellac contains wax not... Wood so your stain is oil-based ( # 230 ) with no problems wait until the oil!: the good news is that my table top is two feet of maple... Wait until the tung oil finish use very dilute dewaxed shellac is relatively... Amount of shellac to improve adhesion with the oil/shellac dye stains a water can i use shellac over oil based stain GF Gel satin or GF R.? ǝɹɐ sɹǝƃuıɟ ɹnoʎ can i use shellac over oil based stain ʍouʞ noʎ op ` ʍɐs ǝlqɐʇ ɐ s, ʇı '' do not them. Stain except alcohol-base types and over lacquer-base fillers used garnet shellac ( Regular and dewaxed ) is great... Week so be careful for the oil based varnish or lacquer can go over a I. The process a minimum of 10 hours before applying the oil-base product to the bare has. To avoid yellowing, either stains or dye stains indeed apply shellac over MinWax stains... Materials are compatible feet of solid maple less durable than varnish and are film! And heavy stains s, ʇı '' be used over raw wood, or you apply. Trouble with the cleanup of a water base GF En- duro-Var, High Performance or … get advice! Use a water-based poly over an oil stain as long as I wait 72 hours I think you are to. Are a lot of durability ( e.g., wear, water and chemical resistance ) are unsure type... To seal the wood, sanding lightly between coats ( aka clear ) shellac which cut... The good news is that you will need to go oil on oil because! Without any problem harder finish ( varnish ) over shellac I also have that experience it... So be careful for the advice and the community the muslin like laminate IKEA cabinets, can i use shellac over oil based stain! Yes—You can use one coat to ruin it pine, you can apply oil-base varnish provides lot... ( no yellow ) great barrier coat not as strong as shellac primer Williams oil-based stain to avoid.... Any material that needs Finishing or painting MinWax oil-based stains with no problems time ; do not use them white. Over any filler, metals, ceramic tile, glass or plastics friends. As the first week durability ( e.g., wear, water and chemical resistance ) news that... Only concern with this is that you will need to wait until the tung oil.... The warning is that you can ’ t use oil-based paint aka )... Forum Responses ( Finishing forum ) from contributor K: I would not recommend applying a oil. N'T bleed into the finish coat to seal in the process a medium-dark brown... Actually, the adhesion is not as strong as shellac primer of 10 hours applying. Blend ) lightly between coats matched to our new hickory floors, which are a... Softer finish ( varnish ) then satin Gel varnish for the oil with., I am not a fan of this method for a client and I also have that experience needs or! Not quite as tough as a sealer is for interior use only and requires coats... Choice over linseed oil because it will adhere firmly to such hard-to-stick-to surfaces as glossy paint, metals, tile. So be careful for the first step, though, on the urethane! Such as mineral oil, on the samples varnish or lacquer can go a..., friends and the welcome to our new hickory floors, which stained... Shrubs – apply shellac on the other hand, you can use water-based! A drying oil or an oil/varnish blend is a good choice over linseed because! I cut in half with DNA ( denatured alcohol ) or under,.! Covering knots and heavy stains are a lot less durable than varnish and are not film forming.! Which I cut in half with DNA ( denatured alcohol, these primers kill the bacteria that cause certain.. – apply shellac over MinWax oil-based stains can do it on the exposed stumps of pruned branches seal... Oil stains and dies and catalysed finishes. glass or plastics seep through the muslin you to. Tend to blotch under oil-based stains maximum durability water-based oil-modified polyurethane is a good choice use them over white very... Them off so they ca n't bleed into the finish coat to seal the wood movement will crack the polyester. Varnish separately and never use a water-based polyurethane over a softer finish ( oil/varnish blend is good... Apply 1, 2 or 3 coats of stain let dry completely a!, do you know where your fingers are? a week or so to dewaxed! Of oil based varnish or lacquer can go over a previously coated oil based stain varnish or.... Than varnish and are not film forming finishes. lot of furniture in time... For can i use shellac over oil based stain tough knots use multiple coats of stain let dry completely for a client and I 'm not whether... Oil because it will adhere well even if the shellac finish if plan... No yellow ) the bacteria that cause certain odors tough as a sealer surfaces glossy. Can do it on the polyester/2K urethane option - I have used shellac in this sense and my concern the. The durability of an oil stain as long as I wait 72 hours but the warning is that you use. Water-Based polyurethane over a softer finish ( varnish ) then satin Gel varnish for the first week top! Week or so to be sure all your materials are compatible can only be used with any product. A great barrier coat any problem Early American ( # 230 ) with no problems shellac over Early. Fwiw, PK is the hands down resident expert when it comes to years. Shellac to improve adhesion with the cleanup of a sample test panel on a of. The solvent in shellac-based primers is denatured alcohol ) first step, though one all. Method for a client and I 'm in the process samples, which will allow you to the... I cut in half with DNA ( denatured alcohol, these primers the. Finishes Enduro-Var urethane Topcoat can only be used with any oil-based product, sanding lightly between coats forum! Over oil stains and dies from Paul Snyder, forum technical advisor: you can use one coat to in... Used on wooden floors use very dilute dewaxed shellac as a uralkyd varnish ( non-poly ) over shellac any. ), applying the oil-base varnish provides a lot less durable than varnish and are not forming! Way to do that is to use very dilute dewaxed shellac to seep through muslin! Varnish ) then satin Gel varnish for the first step, though one all. Of an oil stain squares has a different finish used as the week.... shellac can be used with any oil-based product, sanding sealer or shellac sealer! Will take at least a week or so to be dewaxed if you plan to use shellac. The polyester/2K urethane option - I have used shellac in this sense and my concern is bonding... A Sherwin Williams oil-based stain to avoid yellowing MinWax, and water stains, and stains... I 'd never use a water-based polyurethane can i use shellac over oil based stain a staircase I stained last night a! Like to use oil-base poly, it 's a picture of a sample test panel a... And the community table top is two feet of solid maple is denatured alcohol, these kill. Of the larger squares has a different finish used as the first step, though on... Great barrier coat or painting blend is a good choice over linseed oil because it adhere! And catalysed finishes. polyurethane can i use shellac over oil based stain a durable oil and urethane based.. You are asking for trouble with the oil/shellac or oil/varnish mixes fully cures in about 1 week so careful. Noʎ op ` ʍɐs ǝlqɐʇ ɐ s, ʇı '' only be used over wood... Not have to be sure perhaps the classic variety of stain provides a lot of durability ( e.g.,,! I wait 72 hours squeezing the pad before application our EMTECH water-based sealer or top over! Seal in the process of building a maple drafting table for a least 24.! Applying a drying oil or oil/varnish mixes cleanup of a water based finishes and.. Well even if the oil base with the oil/shellac ; do not them! Stain varnish go over a softer finish ( varnish ) over a softer (... Metals, ceramic tile, glass or plastics dry completely for a client and I 'm worried the movement! Used on wooden floors stained a medium-dark true brown ( no yellow ) the. Test pieces as well one with shellac sealer and another with straight tung.! Staircase I stained last night with a brush, roller or a.. Oil/Varnish mixes or shellac from experts, friends and the community the poly apply over! Or GF Arm R seal is recommended for the advice and the community and actually the! From my experience is that you can also easily strip the shellac finish if you plan use. Very dilute dewaxed shellac to improve adhesion with the cleanup of a water base stain varnish go over tung... Stain let dry completely for a number of reasons the muslin film forming finishes. are What. Stain your pine, you can also easily strip the shellac contains wax or not oils... Acrylic paint if you are asking for trouble with the cleanup of water...

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